Parco Meridiana condominium fees

[Ali]

Hi all

This evening we've received an email from Pino about condo fees for 2008 and 2009. I just wanted to find out if anyone else has received the same?

If you have any thoughts about this please PM me.

Many thanks

Alison

[mike r]

Hi Ali

Jacqueline and me have received an email from pino. We have been asked for Euro480 for the period 2009for the year. Have you received the same? What about all of the other guys. Have thay been billed as well. Can all of the other owners post a message. Are we going to pay as its not completed or will this just make things worse with pino , which could result in the pool and grounds not being maintained.

[bobconners]

Hi all Parco people,

I too have received a letter in Italian regarding the fees for 2008 and 2009. Whilst I am unable to understand it all I think 400 for 2008 is ok but I am not sure about double the price for 2009. I will get the whole letter translated and then I will consider what extra we have for 2009 in terms of services and amenities and post again before I reply to Pino.

Bob Connors

[mike r]

I think you are right. Last years fees were for a building site anyway. But its still not finished. What do we all think?
mike & jacqueline

[Hev&Steve]

Hi to all

We have received nothing so far either for 2008 or 09. Do the condo fees mention anything about paying for electric/water or do we have to pay part of pino's bill on top of fees? Not really happy about paying too much for 2008 - complex was like a building site for much of the year plus we were over on holiday in mid Sept and the pool was not in use so not happy to pay for facilities we were unable to use. From October thru to April can understand that the pool costs too much to maintain but would expect from Easter(?) to end of September to be able to use pool. I've just read John's posting on another thread re shutting pool between 1300 - 1600 unfortunately this is the norm on italian camp sites although have never heard of it happening on hotel/apartment complexes. Like John I have no idea how pino will enforce this unless he is planning on putting gates up? I suppose he will just shut off filters. If we receive anything in next few days will let all know. If anyone wants any translation of anything from Pino - email through to Steve (he works for italian company) as the top secretaries all speak fluent italian and will translate for us.

One last thing are the bills for the single apartments the same as for two bedrooms?? As reading the above nothing seems to be consistent

Heather

[Ali]

Hi Heather and everyone

In reply to your questions, Pino collected email addresses from residents who happened to be on-site during our last visit in May, which may explain why only some people have received the email. I'm happy to forward you the email/letter if you PM me your email address.

In his letter Pino wants to charge €480 (including 20% tax) for 2008 which is made up of €200 pool management (electricity, waste, water); €100 electricity; €100 cleaning. He wants this payment by 30 June. I'm not sure if this cost is just for a one-bed or for both apartment types.

I'm not too sure what he means in terms of charges in 2009 (even Google Translate got confused at this point!). It's either €480 for the year payable in two installments (June and December), or two payments of €480 in June and December.

The letter states that in 2010 the pool with be open from the beginning of May until the end of September, 8am - 1pm and 4-8pm. (I'm not sure how Pino can make decisions on these matters since it's the residents who own the pool and therefore should have a say?)

I've asked our bill paying agents to translate the letter and to comment on its content. The agency acts as an administrator for another local condominium, so I'm hoping they can provide some guidance in terms of regulations relating to managing condominiums. In May when we spoke to the agency about condo fees they said that the condominium normally appoints an administrator to look after the the complex's finances. The administrator gathers quotes for contracted services such as pool maintenance, gardening, cleaning etc and residents (either by committee or by reps, I'm not sure which) would be involved in the decision-making process. The administrator would then work out the costs for each apartment and provide residents with an individual break down of charges. At the end of the year residents would expect to be able to see a set of accounts for the complex. Personally I think this process would help ensure that the process of calculating fees is accurate, transparent and fair for everyone.

Clearly Pino would not be able to break down site costs in this way for this year and last, since the building work still going on will be using power, and meters are still not fitted in apartments. Plus I'm not aware that cleaners have been contracted to clean the communal areas, there's certainly no evidence of it. In terms of gardening, I don't think the flower beds have ever reached a finished state to allow them to be maintained, and there are some spectacular weeds all over the paths and car park.

This said, I do think it's fair for Pino to ask us for a reasonable contribution towards costs for this year and last, to cover water, electricity and swimming pool consumables. I don't see how he can expect full condo fees when the site remains unfinished. I think over the months we've been pretty understanding with the regular power cuts, the 7am morning call as the builders start work, the smelly bonfires on the car park, the 'excitement' of not knowing whether the pool will be operational during your planned holiday or not...

Providing Pino finishes the complex this year, for 2010 personally I would expect to pay an appropriate condo fee to ensure the complex remains well looked after, accurately calculated by an administrator as I've previously mentioned.

Sorry this entry is so long, hope you haven't fallen asleep! What does everyone else think?

Alison

[mike r]

Hi all

Ali, what you are suggesting sounds good to me. The fees are far too high considering it is an unfinished site. However, I hope that it is all completed for this summer.

As for shutting the pool at certain times, this is stupid I agree, as we own the thing.
mike

[Hev&Steve]

Hi to all again

Thanks Ali for your email - Steve is taking to work today and hopefully getting is translated so we may be a bit clearer as to what it all means. I have mucked about with the google translator and it may be wishful thinking but I think that the fees for 2009 are E480 but as we havn't paid 2008 they can be paid in two instalments, ie 480 June for 2008 and 480 for 2009 in December. The last sentence translates to something like "don't believe above if you have paid for 2008" which I suppose means the way we would say if you have paid ignore above.???

The electric worries me - I assume we have to pay for the communal lighting, gates etc but surely our own use in the apartments can't be that high. It is not our fault that we don't have meters especially as I am sure that we have paid 800 euros for them to be installed. I don't understand the figures either am I being stupid or don't they add up to 500 euros? I am happy to pay a contribution for the electric but how has pino arrived at that figure. As for the cleaning and gardening what cleaning and gardening - everytime we have been there we have always pulled up armfuls of weeds ourselves and I know that other people have done the same. Do we have to pay for the guy in the orange shirt who spends most of his time watching the others?

Lastly the swimming pool - if we pay this does this mean it is going to be maintained properly - not be all slimy at the bottom after two days ? We couldn't use at all in September.

When we first brought PM David told us that the condo fees would probably be in the region of 600 for the single and 800 for the double (high for the area as we had pool) - it maybe interesting to know what Pino estimates would be the amount when everything is finished and we are paying for our own electric and water then we could see if this was a fair and just amount that he has asked for. We have been told by others in Scalea that condo fees are about 200 euros a year but that those complexes are not maintained that well as the italians don't believe in spending much on the outside.

Are they any others on the forum who could let us know what they pay for the year and what they get for it?

Heather

[claire tudge]

I dont know if this helps but our condo fees at parco flora for a very small one bed appartment are 150 euros per annum, the complex has an onsite caretaker and is well maintained, there is a pool on site but because of its depth has never been opened, I was told that this was because it would need to have a pool attendant on site at all times for safety issues. If the costs are going to rise so excessively for the pleasure of a pool I would be quite happy to carry on using the Hotel Talao for swimming

[mike r]

Thank you for your very helpful comments. I think that Pino is pushing us too high for the fees if the other condos' fees are so low. What do we feel? we (jacqui and I) are not out till july. Will anyone be out there before this and take it up with pino? We will be emailing Pino about the fees for sure. None us wants the pool to close at lunch I'm sure.

If one of us pays then he will think that his fees are justified but nobody wants a green pool .

Lets hope that a compromise can be found.

[mike r]

ps Hi all, see you soon in paradise.

[Doug]

Hi John et al,

We had the opportunity to find Meridiana this week while touring around in car and foot. We came against a gate to the development, so cannot judge anything inside.

It seems to us, based on all the concerns voiced on this thread, and what we saw, that a soliciter (lawyer) is needed. This reminds me of a condo project my ex-wife and I got into here in the states. A local guy that seemed nice, but whom disappeared once all the units were sold and maintenance issues started. In your case only 60% are sold and already problems? If E960 is the annual fee, that should equate to about E50-60,000 right? Enough to cover a manager and various costs, including the horrid pool costs?

Our impressions are that your brand new development is surrounded by a ghostland of failed developments. Dying apartments, dead swimming pools, plaster and paint falling away, morte all around. Do you think that the Parco Meridiana will be more sustainable than the developments around you? What is the difference? Does the developer make it sustainable, or do a strong consortium of owners? Getting a majority of of remote, foreign owners to unite could be a challenge, but it seems to be in your interest to do-so. Italian developers are bound to be as bad as US or UK ones if they are creeps to start. We don't know the history of the surrounding developments, but they do not appear successful to the casual observer.

I am raising the questions and concerns in your favour I hope, not to cast judgement. Please judge me back at 14viacapella@gmail.com if you chose. Ciao in piace, Doug

[Hev&Steve]

I have been reading all the post, whether private or on the open forum, and am getting a little concerned where this is all leading.

The way I see it at the moment is that there are a number of points, which various people are getting concerned about.

Firstly the 2008 fees, some have paid, some haven't. Pino is asking for E400 plus tax. Have the ones who have already paid, actually paid that amount or not. If they have paid less, then the aim must be to get the rest of us to that amount. If they have paid more then they should be requesting a refund. My own feeling is that this amount is too much, because the bottom line is in 2008; it was still a building site. When David was around he, Pino told him he was going to request fees for 2008, and David told Pino that you can't expect people to pay for a building site (or words to that effect), but we must bear in mind for the better part of that summer, Pino was working on the pool, he had lots of problems, and it was only from Mid September onwards when it was completely out of action, he did supply our apartments with water and electricity, none of this is free, and must be paid for. We were woken many times at 7.00 in the morning by is workman. It is difficult to compare it to other complexes, take Parco Flora, their condo fees are lower but that has a pool attached, which is left empty and nobody bothers with it. Is that what we want with PM? So we need to be careful how far to take this with Pino, he is no different to any other Italian businessman, he wants to see return for his outlay.

Next, the fees for 2009, the letter is slightly confusing, not sure if he wants E400 plus tax, or E500 going by the breakdown (200+100+200). Whatever the amount this comes to, there is no surprise because when we purchased, it was suggested by David that the fees would be about E600, so either way we have got if for less, and again until the connections are made with the facilities, this includes electricity and water. The hours for the pool, this is common and normal in Italy, it doesn't say we can't use it; it's just that the caretaker goes home for his "Siesta" between them hours.

Heather and I purchased the apartment for somewhere to go and "chill" whenever we get the opportunity from the hassles and rat race of our home/work life. I don’t want them hassles in PM. Before attempting to go legal, let’s try contacting Pino first and let him know the concerns we have. Let us be sure that the group are absolutely sure what they want, and not just venting off. For our part, we intend to email/write to Pino asking for a reduced fee for 2008 stating these facts and seeing where it leads us. I am not concerned about the end of June deadline, as far as Italians are normally concerned “Doppia Damani”

When I took the letter from Ali to work for translation, the point my friend made, is that the letter was written in very friendly informal Italian, not the formal type letter that she would have expected.

Personally, we are disputing the 2008 fees because of the points raised above, but as far as this years fees are concerned whether E400 or E500 are happy to pay half now, and if the upkeep of PM is maintained throughout the season then pay the second tranche, bearing in mind at the end year we should go on mains electricity, so a lesser amount would be due because we will be paying for our own facilties.

Finally there are a number of other owners on PM who have not joined in so far, it would be helpful if others would respond as well, either privately or on open forum. If anyone wants a copy of the translated letter (assuming Ali doesn’t mind, its her letter anyway) please contact me.

Sorry, went on a bit

Steve

[JanetC]

Hello everyone:

I have been reading your posts concerning the condo fees. We live in I Delfini in San Nicola which is an established community - been around for about 20 years. We have an association and an administrator (this administrator is also in charge of several other communities). There are annual meetings in August and a notice is sent in advance to all owners. During the meeting, the finances are discussed - all fees collected and disbursed during the year are presented. Residents can present any concerns they may have about the community and a vote is taken on the new budget for the upcoming year. This is all documented and sent in the mail to the owners. Included in the package is a list showing the names of all owners and along with their condo fees and whether they are current in their payments or in arrears. In the fall we receive the bill for the new condo fee which can be paid in full or made in installments over a 6 month period. Our condo fees cover the costs for the water, electricity (for common areas), garbage removal, landscaping in the community areas, the custodian who lives on premises and security. Depending on the size of your unit (bedrooms, terrace/garden space), the condo fees can range from 600 euros to 1,000 euros per year. I Delfini also has a swimming pool but it has been closed for 4 years. When it was open, it was privately owned and anyone in the area was able to use it for a daily fee.

Hope this helps!

Janet Cohen

[fifi]

Just to add a little info. Our pool at Parco Flora is on site alright but it has not opened because it needs to be run by a private person and you get the use of it for a small charge.The condo Fees are set on the size of your apartment.Keep the faith all owners of PM
I can see it is very difficult to sort out because of distance xFifi

[MarKel]

Our apartment is in Residence Covit in the Petrosa area of Scalea. Condominium fees are €200 (set in August 08), for a 1-bed approximately 45 sq.m. apartment. The larger your apartment, the more you pay. Fair enough.
We have a caretaker/manager who maintains the complex to a "relatively " high standard. Come and take a look, Doug!
To the best of my knowledge there is a meeting of owners in August where fees are set and other matters discussed. Billy probably has more information about this than I have.
We haven't got a pool - however there is one around the corner, privately owned, but which has not opened in the two years we have been there.
Fortunately, it is well concealed from the road - can't have our eyesores on public display!
Our apartments were painted this year - at least they were supposed to be. The condominium fee does not include the cost of this work - a separate and rather hefty fee was levied. Perhaps the Parco Merediana developer is planning to set aside some of the annual charges to cover the cost of repainting, and other contingencies? Perhaps that is why your proposed fee is somewhat higher than ours.
I think that we get good value for our money in Covit. However, if Pino is successful in levying such a high fee in P.M., it might not be long before others get the same idea.
Regards,
Markel

[Hev&Steve]

Hi to all

Thanks to everyone who posted on the above it has certainly given us something to think about! Just another small question to help us balance things out. As you know PM is not attached to ENEL or water company. How much does ENEL charge for standing orders quarterly, monthly or however they work and what is the average bill payable for a small apartment. Do you pay for water/sewage together (if you see what I mean) or is this two different companies like we have at home, if so again charges for a small apartment would be handy to know.

Thanks again to everyone

Heather

[Peppermint]

Hi all,
We have just spent 8 days at PM. On arrival the electric gates were stuck and we couldn’t get in!!! We were told it was an electrical problem and was left open all week. It was still jammed open when we left, I wonder if this has been rectified?
Due to the gates being left open there was an Italian family who took full advantage and used the pool everyday.
On the plus side the pool was up and running and the gardeners were weeding.
The car park has not been done, the intercoms have not been fitted and there are still no covers on all the switches.
We have had no letters or request for money from Pino and it would be helpful if Heather could forward this to me.
As we completed in June 2008 it would seem that we would owe 480 for that period?
As for 09-10 we feel that until the site is completed ie the main car park and we have some firm assurance of when the pool will be open during 09-10 it is unreasonable for Pino to request a full payment.
Finally the weather was fabulous and Baby Ben 16 months old loved the swimming pool.
Jackie & Paul, Jane & Simon.

[mike r]

I can confirm that the gates were jammed last week. i hope that they are ok now.

[Hev&Steve]

Hi Jackie

Steve has sent you a private message - we are starting the long drive to Italy tomorrow (after work) so we should be there Friday afternoon. After about a year of trying we finally got a pedestrian key so nag Luigi so at least you can park car outside and walk through as there was no way I was ever going to get over the fence. Sounds bad news if gates stuck open anyone can walk in ( and we are suppose to pay for this) but enough of that there is quite enough going on in the background. If you don't reply to us in time Bob, Ali, Caroline all have copy of letter that Karen translated for us so I am sure someone will pass it on if you give them your email address. Hope you all had a good holiday despite gates and hope we can all meet up again very soon.

Heather

Ps How is your lemon tree - I wonder if mine is still alive????? .